In this week’s Big Interview, Leader of the Opposition and
priest, Hon. Wavel Ramkalawan shares with TODAY his candid views on the
government response to COVID-19 and the pitfalls of a lack of consultation,
whether the elections should be postponed, the country’s social and economic
landscape and the necessity of reinventing ourselves for a post COVID-19 world.
We speak to Hon. Ramkalawan about the priesthood and politics, leadership, the
protection of children and the family unit in the country.
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| Hon. Wavel Ramkalawan |
Well, now we’re going back some 55 years. I’ve always felt
the call to become a priest. This was apparent at the age of four on Praslin.
In fact, it’s my earliest memory that sticks to mind. From there everything just
continued.
I knew exactly what I was called to do in life. When I
finished my A-Levels I went to the Theological College in Mauritius. Upon my
return I was ordained Deacon and after one year I was ordained to the
priesthood. Then I went to Birmingham University to do my post graduate degree
in pastoral care, and returned to Seychelles.
Looking at how things were in the one-party state, I again
felt a call to stand up and address the issues of the lack of democracy and a
lot of illegal things that were happening. I remember very well when Kathleen
Pillay was denied entry into the country and she was sent back. She came a
second time and then she was accepted into the country after a lot of
negotiations and aggression. I always say that this marked me and a little
later, I denounced the system in a sermon. I was then banned by Albert Rene from
doing any services on radio.
A year later, things started to change and together with
others such as Roger Mancienne, Jean- François Ferrari, Bernard and Annette
Georges and others, we pushed for multi-party democracy under the name ‘Parti
Seselwa’. Eventually, multi-party democracy was accepted and we continued to
this day as a registered political party.
Would you say that there is a link between the clergy and politics
in that it involves a lot of speaking to communities?
I see what you mean. In fact, one can say that a call to the
priesthood is a call to leadership. As a priest you are leading; of course,
you’re firstly a messenger preaching the gospel but at the same time you also
have to address issues going on in the country.
There is a similarity but the common point is leadership. When
we got multi-party, I was chosen to be the leader of ‘Parti Seselwa’. Locally,
there were no leaders and since I had stood up to the regime, I was asked to
lead the party.
As the Opposition Leader, what are you opposing?
Leader of the Opposition is the title. I wouldn’t focus too
much on the word opposition or anything else. I see myself as a political
leader with other strong-willed people and colleagues around me, aiming to
fulfil a mission.
There is a vision and it’s always been there: returning Seychelles
to a fully-fledged democracy, fighting for justice, equality, for the
protection of human rights and a strong economy where wealth is fairly distributed.
This is what we are fulfilling.
Like I said, the title is ‘Leader of the Opposition,’ simply
because I am not part of the government. Of course, I oppose a lot of the
present government’s policies. In fact, I have felt like this since Rene was president;
it’s the same political party!
They have been responsible for a lot. You just need to look
at what comes out of the Truth, Reconciliation and National Unity Commission to
understand why I could never be part of that system. There have been too many
killings, too many who’ve had to live in exile, people have lost jobs and
properties and all of these things do not match my way of thinking.
I oppose even to this day because there is still a lot of
corruption that goes on. Through the FPAC we’ve revealed a lot of anomalies in
the way things are being done. I oppose the system because I believe Seychelles
needs a break from the terrible past of bloodshed and corruption. Seychelles
needs a fresh start. For the time being yes, I am the presidential candidate
but I want to see a fresh start for the country and I believe that once we change
the government, then politics will be different. We will have more young people
involved and people will feel that it’s not about partisanship but fighting for
the greater good of the country.
How do you think the government is handling the COVID-19 situation?
Well, we have to look at the medical side and the economy. These
are the two main elements. I firmly believe that Doctor Gédéon and team are
doing a good job but I wish a lot of decisions were taken earlier.
As you know, I pushed for a lockdown after our first few
cases, I knew what I was talking about. Now we have a situation whereby after
the 11th case, there is the possibility of community transmission, we don’t
know where we stand today. We are walking around with fingers crossed and eyes
to the sky, thanking God for protecting us.
I believe that we shouldn’t have ever been in this
situation. I pushed for a lockdown even before 14 days after the first two
cases were diagnosed. We are now working backwards, so to speak.
We hear that things are getting better but measures being
taken point to the other direction, the curfew. It is a bit of a mess and of course
in that mess, suddenly people are asking questions. Is it worse that what we’re
being told?
I pray that we do not get any more positive cases and that
on the medical front everything gets sorted out.
Now for the economy, I think the country needs to look at
things with new eyes and we also need to think in terms of how we reinvent ourselves.
I would say that the government was too hasty in announcing certain measures.
Danny Faure should never have uttered the phrase, “the government will cater
for salaries in the private sector.”
This should never had been said. Instead, the government
should have first consulted with the private sector and not just SCCI. I’ve heard
a lot of criticism of the SCCI. There are other bodies such as the Praslin
Business Association, the La Digue Business Association and others.
The Opposition should have been consulted too because the economy
and COVID-19 is not just about the government. There should have been wide
consultation and from there, a better understanding could have been taken from
the private sector.
Having made the announcement, it’s only now they’re
reflecting. For example, some of the measures imposed on the private sector, be
it annual leave or redundancy, these two issues will come back to bite the
government. They were wrong decisions. Economists are openly speaking about it.
We are now in the first month and people are getting replies and they’re upset.
The president retracted his decision. When the government
found that it made a mistake saying that salaries would be covered, the bar was
pushed higher, asking for so many documents and accounting records and such.
This is an indication that the government does not really
want to pay the private companies. At the end of this month we will definitely see
the real chaos.
A lot of self-employed people have received letters. They were
expecting to get at least the minimum salary, just as was announced, but things
are different. I know someone for instance who’s getting SCR2,000. This is
SCR500 cash and SCR1,500 for STC vouchers to buy food.
The government is really messing up. The farmers were told “don’t
worry, we have fertiliser stock for three months and then we’ll bring in more
stock.” When they went to the stores, they saw this wasn’t true and the
government had to change its story.
The whole thing about STC buying produce was not fulfilled,
same thing with the fishermen.
The government has not led our producers up the right path.
It looks like a knee-jerk reaction in order to give a quick answer. There have
been a lot of promises, but I feel by the end of the month, things will be
clearer. The government should not tie the hands of the private sector. The reality
will hit the country hard.
Seychelles is shocked to hear about the child-molestation
cases, which in fact is widespread and has been ongoing for years but remains
taboo. What is your take?
I condemn child molestation. I believe our children are here
for us to protect them. They should not be preyed upon and abused by adults.
For me, this is a clear no-go area as far as our children are concerned. The
three men convicted pleaded guilty and of course, everybody went into shock.
It’s not the first time that people have been convicted for
similar offences. A few years back a guy was arrested for abusing young
children and there was an uproar. He was sentenced for over 20 years and
everyone went quiet after a while. Now the uproar is back.
I think the country needs to be serious about protecting our
children. What sticks out for me is that this is the first time it’s happened when
we have a minister responsible for the Family. This has happened under their
watch. Now, we can either say that they’re working and they’ve been able to
identify offenders, or on the other hand we can turn around and say that the ministry
isn’t doing its job.
This latest case went through the internet and we know well that
international organisations have ways of tracking these paedophiles, so what
has Seychelles been doing? We complain about social media, but what has been done
concretely? We still have fake profiles and children can be easily lured
through these profiles.
The police need to get their act together. An IP address can
easily be traced. One, we need to step up as far as social media is concerned. Two,
the family needs to be more responsible. We hear from time to time that
children go missing. When they do return home, what do the parents do? Do the
police manage to trace where the children have been? Your phone has a GPS on it
and we should be able to track and follow where a child could have been.
Schools must be able to identify abnormal behaviour. These
kids exhibit certain behaviour when such things happen.
Now the country needs to step up, make an example of these
offenders as a deterrent to would-be predators. People who do these things are
sick in the head. Maybe they should realise that they shouldn’t be preying on
young children, rather getting on with a serious adult life.
Would you agree that Seychelles as a whole is going through
a lot of social ills whereby certain unhealthy actions and habits, that are
Western, are deemed normal?
I think you’re right. A lot of kids find this normal. Though
we are labelled as African, we tend to follow more the Western culture. I am
amazed at how things that pop up in the west suddenly become the norm here.
There is a tendency to see such things as normal. It is also
true that parents, because of this western mentality, fall into the trap of thinking
this is normal. They don’t feel the need to impose restraint on their kids.
A lot of people would say that it is because of how kids
dress up and they’re looking for it. I don’t think we should ever say these
things. A child remains a child and it’s the adult that interprets things
differently.
A child taking part in a child beauty pageant is innocent at
its core and I believe it is the adult’s mind that interprets things
differently, seeing an opportunity to prey on a child. This is why I used the expression
of them being sick in the head.
Unfortunately, the family is not a strong unit in
Seychelles. Over 60% of children are born out of a serious relationship.
Furthermore, a lot of family units comprise of a father who have other
children, as well as the mother. We have instances where the stepdad preys on the
daughter of the partner. There is a lot of secrecy as the mother does not want
the shame of the revelations. The innocent child becomes a victim in that sense
too because the very people who are supposed to protect them cannot do so.
It’s a complex issue and I think we definitely have to start
somewhere. The attitude of ‘laissezfaire’ has gone too far. The attitude of
sleeping-over by teenagers has become a norm and a lot of parents do not know
what goes on when their kids sleep over. We need to get back to basics!
What are your views on the police force and how do you think
they’re faring during the COVID- 19 situation?
Unfortunately, I would say, following my own experience, I
am quite disappointed with the police force, especially with the ANB. This came
out clearly in the report (related to my unlawful stop and search) by Judge
Robinson that they need to have a protocol on how they carry out certain
activities. If you stop somebody for a search, there needs to be reasonable suspicion.
Your freedom is sacred and anything that takes away your freedom needs to be
real!
I think the police needs quite a bit of training; the
attitude of officers should be more reasonable. Without hesitation, I will talk
about the case of Honourable Valmont. He was arrested after breaking the curfew
rules from what I understand and he ran to his home. The police chased and
followed him to his home. If this is the way it happened, for me, the question is,
you arrest somebody in his home and you take him to a police station to have
him detained. This does not make sense. It should not have happened. He
should’ve been cautioned and made to report to the police the following day and
charged if needed.
But then, I’ve seen multiple videos being circulated where
officers use excessive force or tear gas, playing the ‘cowboy’. The police need
to be reasonable and uphold the rule of law.
I believe that our police force needs to take stock on what’s
happening within it and then give Seychelles proper policing. This way, a
police officer does not abuse his powers. A citizen can talk and reason with an
officer and that officer should have the possibility to understand and
empathise. It shouldn’t be a question of ‘no, I’m the officer! Therefore, I am
detaining you.’ No, this type of policing is gone, it’s finished.
I look forward to an era where police officers are well
trained and will see themselves as servants of the people and they will help to
maintain law and order. They will not be the ones accused or convicted of
breaking the law.
Can we get an update on FPAC recommendations and where it’s at
now?
The thing is, the FPAC has done a lot of work up until now.
We have carried out a number of investigations and we’ve presented our reports to
the Assembly and through the Assembly, to the government.
Unfortunately, I feel that the government has not taken the findings
of the FPAC seriously. On the other hand, though, what I have found is through our
deliberations, especially when it comes to the Auditor General’s report, looking
at the issues raised, the ministries have listened to our propositions on
procurement and we find that year after year, things get better.
In fact, one instance we are happy about concerns the
Botanical Gardens Foundation. The government was collecting only SCR1.2 million
and after conducting our investigation, we saw where money was disappearing. We
notified them and gave recommendations. Interestingly enough, last year, they
collected over SCR7 million. The same for L’Union Estate, which was running at
a loss and now after the FPAC intervened, for the last two years, it is running
at a profit. If I’m not mistaken, it recorded SCR15 million as a yearly profit.
Now, the work staring the FPAC in the eye is the first
disbursements to be made under the special budget for COVID-19 and for the
Ministry of Finance to provide us with a report. That should be presented to
the National Assembly and the FPAC will go through it and make our report to
the Assembly for an assessment on what we have found.
How have you been feeling about the elections up until now and
do you think that it should be postponed?
No, I don’t think the elections should be postponed. We are
in April and elections should be held between September and Novembe, we still
have some time to go. South Korea had their elections some two, three weeks ago
in the midst of the COVID crisis. The US will be having theirs too, so I don’t see
anything that should stop the elections from being held unless there is a
second round of COVID- 19 that really messes up the world, then I would
obviously step back and think about what we are going to do.
Of course, the situation has affected the traditional
campaigning style but just like the country will have to reinvent itself, we
have already reinvented our style of campaigning as I am sure others have, so
things are going smoothly.
But, back to election time, I am confident that the people
of Seychelles still want to see a change of government and I believe it will happen
in 2020.
Do you think the leading party has an unfair advantage in
terms of campaigning and visibility since the president and the government are
constantly on TV and communicating to the public?
Well, yes, one could easily come to the conclusion that
Danny Faure is always on TV and making announcements and as such is doing a lot
of politics. I would say that it’s normal, I do not see it as an unfair advantage.
He is the president of the country and COVID-19 is a serious issue and as the
head of the executive he has to be the one leading the fight.
So, I don’t have any problems with that. In fact, sometimes
it is to our advantage! He makes an announcement and then he needs to go back
on these. Farmers complain, fishermen complain; he makes an announcement and
the private sector complains. I mean, overexposure can also destroy.
So right now, I am not complaining about his presence
because he is doing us quite a lot of good.
Has the party discussed a structure and changes if you reached
the executive?
We were already working on a programme and in fact, because
of COVID-19 we have had to change a lot of things. For example, the way we look
at the economy. Tourists will probably come back, after whatever number of
years it takes. But it is obvious now that we cannot make tourism the number
one [pillar].
We are looking at how to give fishing and agriculture their
rightful place in our economy. We are also looking into self-sufficiency so
that we can cut on importation. If we do that, we can build higher reserves.
These two are now top on our agenda and we’re talking to experts on how to push
this forward.
Tourism does not need to be rebuilt and reinvented. But
agriculture, we need to start thinking in terms of livestock. This is one area that
needs emphasis, as well as production.
When we look at our islands run by IDC, COVID-19 has proven
to be a real test. Apart from tourism, they haven’t produced much. Celebrating 40
years of IDC, I believe there is a huge question mark on what IDC has actually
been doing. They put all their eggs in one basket and today, we cannot depend on
IDC for livestock or agricultural products. We have to take a new look in how
we manage our islands that will bring greater benefits to our country.
by A. Laporte
Source: Today in Seychelles
